Below is a conversation I had with a person on my Undaunted Democrat facebook page in response to my post about Hillary’s speaking fees being a non-issue. The person claimed to be a Bernie supporter but I suspect he is probably a right wing troll. It was a good conversation and I allowed it until he started getting insulting to one of the other commenters and me and calling us names, then I banned him from the page. I have deleted his name and will use the term “him” in this post. My comments. Where I make them. Will be in red.
Him FDR fundamentally changed how government is perceived, expanding the Executive Office further than any President since Abraham Lincoln. At a time when the Nation was in it’s darkest hour .
The Undaunted Democrat to him Comparing Bernie Sanders to FDR is like trying to tell me an apple is an orange. They come from entirely different trees.
Him, to The Undaunted Democrat Once again, that speaks more to your ignorance of the historical facts than the facts at hand. You should probably spend more time reading history than pontificating and bloviating on what you think is true. That’s a particularly conservative approach to history. He tries to use big words to show how smart he is.
Him Hillary’s complicity doesn’t simply go to a couple speaking engagement- any politician, especially a NY Senator, is going to do that. What’s important to remember is the statement she made when they left the White House- “You have no reason to remember but we came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt…” Her financial statement a few months ago was $31,300,000. Add to that the amount of campaign funding she has received from the financial sector- $6m in December, or 7.2% of her total campaign funding. If you think the big banks put out that kind of cash on a single candidate without some indication of at least access, if not entitlement- well James, I’ve misjudged you. That kind of money buys influence, and opens doors that are closed to most citizens. You either believe the influence pedaling signaled by Citizens United is a good thing or a bad thing- I personally don’t believe Big Capital spends that kind of money without expecting a return on investment. I don’t know where he got the idea that we were flat broke when the Clintons left the whitehouse. We had a 231 Billion dollar budget surplus and the debt was reduced considerably.
Him And this more recent explanation of why she feels a much more omnibus approach to financial reform- roll in ALL the players into a reform package- this when she’s arguing that changing ACA to single payer is far too all-encompassing to be a workable idea. Two things- if adjusting ACA is simply too political to address without dismantling, how can a bill that addresses not only the banks, but hedge funds and the insurance industry someone be doable? Secondly, it’s interesting to note that daughter Chelsea married a Hedge Fund Manager. Note: the volume feed is very low on this vid. He posted a you tube vid from somebody I never heard of and no sources.
Him I’ll vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination- she’s certainly no more corrupt than anyone on the GOP side, and her other issues are certainly valid and progressive- but I fully expected to see the players behind the financial collapse already in prison- and I don’t relish voting for the person that will ensure they stay out- or allows business to continue as usual, especially when all signs indicate that they’re once again becoming risk-indulgent.
Him Further, I think her demonstrated reluctance to reinstate Glass-Steagall is a clear indication that she’s reluctant to bite the hand that feeds her war chest. First this little piece on Hillary, Bill, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall- (another right wing post) OK, let’s get this straight, Hillary repealed Glass-Steagall.
By the time Bill Clinton signed the Financial Services Modernization Act, commonly known as Gramm-Leach-Bliley, repealing the key components of Glass-Steagall in 1999, the regulation was nearly toothless. The law was simply catching up to what the market had already accomplished in the previous 10 to 15 years, said Kathleen Day, a lecturer at Johns Hopkins University and an expert in financial crises.
Take for example the poster child of the end of Glass-Steagall: The merger of Citicorp, a bank, and Travelers Group, a financial conglomerate, was announced in 1998 before Glass-Steagall was repealed. Even though this was the exact type of merger Glass-Steagall was intended to halt, the financial industry did not see many obstacles for the creation of Citigroup.
We now have Dodd-Frank. and many experts agree that parts of it are working very well while other parts need to be strengthened and expanded. The implementation of Dodd-Frank has been obstructed by republicans since it was signed into law.
Him It’s not the speaking fees themselves, it’s WHO is paying the tab. Are you so politically naive that you don’t understand the nature of compromised integrity due to special interests? Maybe you should go back to your Xbox.
The Undaunted Democrat No, but you are. Bernie sanders would have you believe the old “guilt by association” gambit, that all wall street people are the enemy and if you associate with them you too must be the enemy. If you believe that you are as politically naive as Palin.
Him, The Undaunted Democrat I study modern political history. To suggest I’m naive about the influence of big money in our political process doesn’t speak to my naivety, but to yours.
The Undaunted Democrat to Him I don’t care what you study (or say you study) I didn’t say you were naive about the influence of big money in politics, (those are your words, not mine) I do believe that you are naive in thinking that when a politician makes a speech to the rich or to wall street or wherever they are automatically “bought off.”
Him, The Undaunted Democrat I never said that. I said that when there is a demonstrated complicity, coupled with extensive financial contributions, followed by a candidate’s relaxed and dismissive stance on regulations- that candidate’s bias is suspect and bears investigation. I wouldn’t say that all Senators profit from building tanks or jets the military clearly states it doesn’t need, but if they still support building weapons systems after the Pentagon clearly goes on record as stating it doesn’t want them- AND those weapons are being built in a Senator or Congressman’s state or district- you don’t have to be Einstein to see a potential conflict of interests.
As for whether or whether not I study modern American politics or simply SAY I do so- go fuck yourself. If you can’t determine the level of my understanding of the dynamic by what I’ve already written, you’re too stupid to be discussing this anyway. Undaunted Democrat? I see little difference in the manner in which you seek to support your preconceived worldview than one of Trump’s voters. This is where I decided to cut him off. When a person touts a (so Called) higher education in order to prove a point, I get highly suspicious. When they can’t make a valid argument without those kinds of attacks, I’m done talking to them.
Him, The Undaunted Democrat If you like Hillary, GREAT. I’ll be voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is- but anyone who’s unwilling to critically examine any candidate, even those they really REALLY like- is simply a low information voter- the kind Jefferson thought lead to the “Tyranny of Democracy”.
The Undaunted Democrat Him As you refuse to critically examine Bernie, even after he has been caught in many lies, I suppose.
The Undaunted Democrat Yep, some Bernie people are just right wing wannabe’s. They are losing an argument so they start calling names. Yepper, I knew it. Actually Him, I have always said that this page supports Hillary. It’s been a good argument but it is now time for you to leave when you start getting insulting and calling names.
As to my not “Critically Examining” Hillary Clinton. I have vetted her at least since she was first lady. I know of her work with health care and I know that many of the provision in Obamacare came from that endeavor. I know her record in the senate and her charitable work. I have researched and know what she did in the civil rights movement. I have also vetted Bernie Sanders and I am confident that he is wrong and she is right for America, so…..
I’M WITH HER.